035: Dress for Success: A Guide to Classic Menswear

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Announcer: I'm Not A Gentleman is a production of chaceandryder.com

00:05
So I was like to use the example that brown and green go really, really well together. So if I'm wearing a brown suit, a green tie is really going to set that suit off. Right. But that doesn't mean because I'm wearing a brown suit, I can't wear a Navy tie. It's still going to go well. It's just that the green is going to look a little bit better. So when we're talking about a versatile color like charcoal.

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The first color that came to mind as far as a tie that would go perfectly with charcoal would be probably burgundy is a really nice color. I think that's more of a preference thing, but that doesn't mean you can't wear Navy. Doesn't mean you can't wear green. Doesn't mean you can't wear brown. Doesn't mean you can't wear purple. Doesn't mean any of those things.

00:50
Yo, what up? Welcome to I'm Not A Gentleman, the show designed to help you look stylish without following trends. I'm your host Vladimir Riché from chaceandryder.com and your favorite menswear YouTuber's favorite menswear YouTuber. I've helped dozens of clients and hundreds of students and viewers feel more confident by looking their best and always making a great first impression.

01:20
One thing that you guys hear me speak about all the time and a term that I always use is classic menswear.

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And I know there's some confusion when it comes to that term, like what exactly is classic menswear? I know for a fact when I heard it myself, I wasn't quite sure what it was. So that's what I'm gonna talk about in this episode is what are the characteristics of classic menswear? What makes something classic menswear? So what exactly is it? So let's get right into it, right after my theme music. Entral.

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Intro music: Bag in that bag in that bag again, whoa!

01:59
So welcome to number 35, AKA the Kevin Durant episode. I know he doesn't wear 35 anymore, he wears seven now, but 35 is not really a popular number, man. So I couldn't really find anybody else. So you guys are just gonna have to deal with 35 for Kevin Durant, all right? Cool. Now let's get into the episode. So once again, I was saying that I'm going to be talking about classic menswear.

02:26
And the reason why I feel like it's important is because I'm in the process of coming out with my own membership and it's called the Classic Men's Wear Hub. And as I was talking to my business partner, he's like, do you think people know exactly what Classic Men's Wear mean? And it's a really good question. At first I was like, of course they know what Classic Men's Wear is and what it means. But not really, man.

02:55
Even myself, when I first heard the term, I wasn't quite sure what it was. But what really solidified it was when I was in the process of getting my logo done, that was like 10 years ago, and I hired someone to do it, and I was like, I'm going to be talking about classic menswear. And what he sent back was bow ties.

03:21
and those type of things, you know what I'm saying? Like to him, that's what classic menswear was. And I think a lot of people think that's what classic menswear is as well. And it's not really that, you know what I mean? And another thing that also tools people off, I don't know if you remember that song, I'm a Classic Man, and in the video, dude was wearing all sorts of old outfits. So I think a lot of times when people wear a classic menswear, they're thinking that's what that is.

03:49
So classic menswear doesn't necessarily mean that it's old. It just means that it's timeless. To better explain it, I can tell you what it's not. So when you're reading GQ Magazine and you're seeing guys wearing slim suits, that's not classic menswear. You know, if you look on the cover of a GQ Magazine and you see somebody wearing slim lapels with a skinny tie, that's not classic menswear. Classic menswear is something where you can't really put your finger on

04:18
how old it is. So when I'm looking at GQ magazine or when I see the way that certain guys dress, I can pinpoint exactly what era that's from. Cause I remember when the pendulum started swinging that way versus classic menswear, it's not really like that. So if you really following timeless menswear or timeless fashion, whatever you want to call it, there's not really like a date stamp on it.

04:44
So to better understand classic menswear, I'll give you guys some examples of what's classic menswear. So when it comes to classic menswear, the first thing is the fit. So it's not something that's going to be too baggy, and it's not something that's going to be too slim. So the fit should be right in the middle. That's classic menswear. So if you see a guy with his jacket unbuttoned, but you can tell that

05:11
the two sides of the jacket, like the buttoning part of the jacket, or so far apart, and you know that he won't be able to button it without straining, that's not classic menswear. Classic menswear, your clothes should fit without any sign of anything pulling. So the silhouette is very important. Classic menswear also is very big on the lapels. So the lapels shouldn't be too skinny.

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because that's a sign of fashion. So, wider lapels to me are always more flattering. And what do I mean by wider lapels? I'm talking about anything that's above three and a half inches. Personally, my lapels are all above four inches, like between four and a quarter to four and a half. So I like them really wide. But you definitely don't want anything that's sub three and a half inches because that's a dated aesthetic.

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and it just also doesn't look right. Another sign of classic menswear is the buttoning point of the jacket. So when we're talking about fashion, you're going to see that the buttoning points are usually high, like at the bottom of your sternum, where the buttoning point should actually be at your natural waist, which is by your belly button. And this is one of those things, if nobody ever told you, you probably never realized that.

06:39
For example, I was looking at pictures of Patrick Mahomes in happy dresses before games. And you can always see his shirt even when his jacket is buttoned. And I'm talking about like under the buttoning point. You see his tie and you see his shirt. That shouldn't be happening if you follow in classic menswear. Because number one, the reason why it happens is because the buttoning point of the jacket is too high. And number two, it also happens because the waist of the trousers is too low.

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And that's another sign of classic menswear is you want the waist of the trousers to be actual natural waist once again, which is your belly button. So the buttoning point of the jacket and the width of the trousers should meet. So that way, even when the jacket is buttoned, you shouldn't be able to see the shirt because there's no space for the shirt to peek through. If no one ever told you that.

07:36
you'd probably go your whole life and never really realize it. But once you know what that is, you want to start seeing the shirt peeking under the buttoning point and above the trousers, what we call the dreaded triangle. And you won't be able to stop on seeing it. Now, another sign of classic menswear, and this one is a tad controversial, is having two inch cuffs on your trousers. And the reason why I'm saying it's controversial is because guys who aren't used to two inch cuffs,

08:05
they look at it as a dated aesthetic. And I can understand in a way that cuffs are associated with a certain era, but we're not talking about two inch cuffs here. We're probably talking about a one inch cuff. Two inch cuffs, they have been around since the beginning of time when it comes to classic menswear. And that's because the two inch cuffs, not only do they look good, but they also play a function because that makes the bottom of the trousers heavier. So.

08:33
Therefore the trousers are going to drape nicer on your shoes. Now it was thought back in the days that having cuffs on your trousers was more casual and that doesn't really apply anymore. Well some somewhat because you shouldn't have cuffs on your tuxedos. All right. So your tuxedo trousers should not have cuffs on them. But besides that is fair game because once again, not only does it look good, it plays a function.

09:03
So personally, I have cuffs on every single trousers that I own. I mean, I'm not talking about casual trousers like jeans, although I do cuff my jeans and my chinos, the ones that I wear, they come cuffed already. Although they're not two inch cuffs, but every suit trousers or out trousers that I have are all cuffed. I would never wear trousers without cuffs. I remember when I first got into classic menswear, there was a suit.

09:32
that I had gotten made. I said, no, I got the suit made prior to getting into classic menswear, but that's when I started to change my aesthetic a little bit. And that's when I first discovered cuffs. So I had the cuffs made, but the trousers were a little bit too short. So when I really started to get into classic menswear, I was like, I like those trousers, but they're too short. So I went to my tailor and I was like, is there any way that you can make those longer? And he was like, if I have to make those longer, you're going to lose the cuffs.

10:00
I mean, I'm gonna have to make them like one inch, but they won't be two inch cuffs. And I was like, nah, forget it. Because I'm not wearing a one inch cuff and I'm definitely not going cuffless. That's just not happening. But that's just me. And the reason why I'm saying, once again, it's controversial, but guys still ask me, should they be wearing cuffs with their trousers? I got that question twice today on the picture that I posted on Instagram. One guy asked me, what kind of material should they be wearing cuffs with?

10:26
And then another guy DM'd me and asked me, he just got a couple of suits and he's thinking about getting cuffs. What do I recommend? I guess he's new to what I do. So I have to tell him that I wear cuffs on everything personally. And I explained to him why that not only do they look right, or should I say when they don't have cuffs, it looks to me like something is missing. But they also play a function. So cuffs are extremely important. And yes, two inch cuffs. That's classic menswear.

10:57
We're going to talk about trousers for a minute, but speaking of trousers, the next thing that's classic menswear, pleats. There are a couple of different variations of pleats. So you have the reverse pleat and you have the forward pleat. The reverse pleat opens in the same direction as your pocket. That's the most common type. And the forward pleats open in the same direction as your fly. We can also do a single pleat. You can do a double pleat.

11:26
So most of my trousers come in a single reverse configuration. That's because a lot of my trousers are off the rack and the company that I use, that's the configuration of the trousers come in. But whenever I get something custom, I always go for a forward pleat and I typically go for double forward pleat. So since I'm leaning towards more custom, all my trousers that I've been getting lately are double forward pleats. And similar to cuffs,

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Pleats also play a function because they give you more room, especially when you're sitting down. So that's when they open up to expand, to allow for more room and more comfort. So if the pleats are open while you're standing still, that's a sign that the trousers are too tight for you, because they should only open when you need them. Funny enough, the pictures that I posted on Instagram today also got posted automatically on my Facebook.

12:24
And one of my friends on there sent me a message asking me, do these trousers have pleats? Because from the picture I posted, you can't see the front of the trousers. And I had to answer him, if they didn't have pleats, there would have been my trousers. Because I'm not wearing trousers with no pleats. I'm just not doing it. So flat front trousers, no, that's not me. I'll never do that. Pleats, classic menswear. Also, wider trousers.

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or also classic menswear. So if you see a dude walking around with really slim trousers, it's not classic menswear, man. And the reason why wider trousers make sense is because when you have slimmer trousers, it kind of looks like you're not really wearing a suit. You're wearing two different pieces. Where a suit is supposed to be uniform. So the top and the bottom should match, another word.

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So you don't want it to look like two different pieces. You kind of want it to look like one piece. So if you are wearing slimmer trousers, it's just not going to flow. So you always want to make sure that the trousers are full. Now, they are extremes. Like I've seen guys on Instagram, sometimes they go too wide with the trousers. I mean, that's their choice and their aesthetic and that's cool. But if I'm teaching someone, I would never tell them to get their trousers that wide. You know what I mean? Because...

13:49
it's a little bit too wide, man. I always say I don't like the extremes. I don't like anything that's too wide and I don't like anything that's too slim. So you wanna be somewhere in the middle. And one thing that goes hand in hand with how wide the trousers are is the leg opening because you can't have a small leg opening and have wider trousers. And same thing, you can't have wider leg openings.

14:17
and have slim trousers, it just doesn't really make any sense. It got a flow from the hips all the way down to the bottom. And that's one thing I've been working on myself. So prior to, I'd say the past six months. We'll be right back.

14:39
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15:07
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15:51
The leg opening on my trousers were always eight inches. And for the past six months, I've been telling myself, I want it to be wider than that. So I've been experimenting with wider trousers. So the last suit that I got, which is the one that I'm wearing in the Instagram picture that I posted today. So if you're not following me on Instagram, it's chase.rider is my Instagram name. It's also in the show notes.

16:18
And you can see what I'm talking about. I'm wearing a brown Herringbone Tweed suit and the pictures from the side so that you can see how wide the hem openings are. Those particular trousers, the hem is eight and three quarter inches. But I think going forward, I'm going to make them nine inches because I still want them to be a little bit wider. Although...

16:42
It's a really nice look now, but I think that it could be slightly wider. So I want to add a quarter inch to that. And that's just to give it that flow and make everything look right. And the funny part is I saw somebody sent me this Instagram video of this guy that was talking about some of the mistakes that men make when they wear a suit. And one of the mistakes that he was talking about was guys put their cell phones.

17:12
in their pants pocket and that's not a good look because it's going to leave a bulge so you should have it in your jacket's pocket instead. Now I'm definitely with him on that. I think that it's much more comfortable to have it in your breast pocket but at the same time if I put my phone in my pants pocket it doesn't leave an imprint because my trousers are wide enough for that not to happen. So if somebody can see your phone through your pants

17:40
That's the sign that your pants are too slim, man. You know what I mean? That's what the real problem is. It's not the fact that you have your phone in your pants pocket. Your pants are just too slim, man. That's not classic menswear, man. So yeah, trousers, although I do see that the trend has been wider trousers, although classic menswear doesn't really follow trends, but I feel like fashion itself is favoring

18:08
wider trousers which is a welcome sight. So yeah man get your trousers a bit wider don't go too crazy unless that's what you like but um you definitely don't want them to be too slim. One rule of thumb and I go by that as well is you want the trouser leg opening to be about two-thirds of your shoes so even though I'm 5'10 I do have small feet I wear 7 UK.

18:37
So even when I was wearing eight inch leg openings, it didn't look like it was slim by any stretch, but I just felt like it could be wider because when the trousers hem are wider, you don't have to worry about a bunch of unsightly folds. Everything just drapes nicely when the trousers are wider. But just be mindful of the size of your feet compared to the leg openings because you don't want to look like a clown.

19:06
you know, to have slimmer trousers and your feet are really big. So it does be mindful of that. That's why it's not really a one size fits all situation is going to look different for different guys. But yeah, you want it to be around two thirds of your shoe size. If that makes sense. And the reason why I want to talk about that is because a lot of guys look at GQ as a menswear Bible and this type of information, you're not really going to find in GQ.

19:33
because they favor more of a fashion aesthetic. So I just wanted to give you guys a different perspective. And I wanted to make sure that when I'm saying classic menswear, you know exactly what I'm talking about. So something that's timeless, not something that comes and goes. So now that we got some of the characteristics of classic menswear out the way, here's one thing that I do want to talk about. I feel like a lot of guys really complicate things that shouldn't be complicated.

20:03
is not hard, but it's definitely not easy. I mean, just look around. If dressing world was easy, then most men would be dressing well, and we know for a fact that's not the case. I'd say 95% of guys have no idea what's going on when it comes to dressing well. But one thing I do realize, a lot of guys really complicated, man. I'll give you an example. There's a guy that hit me up on Instagram the other day, and he said to me, what's the best tie color?

20:29
to wear with charcoal suits because he's having a really hard time pairing his charcoal suits with ties. They are going to be certain colors that work better together, but that doesn't mean that you can't wear other colors. So I always like to use the example that brown and green go really, really well together. So if I'm wearing a brown suit, a green tie is really going to set that suit off, right? But that doesn't mean because

20:58
I'm wearing a brown suit, I can't wear a navy tie. It's still going to go well. It's just that the green is going to look a little bit better. So when we're talking about a versatile color like charcoal, the first color that came to mind as far as a tie that would go perfectly with charcoal would be probably burgundy is a really nice color. I think that's more of a preference thing, but that doesn't mean you can't wear navy. That doesn't mean you can't wear green. That doesn't mean you can't wear brown.

21:28
doesn't mean you can't wear purple, doesn't mean any of those things. So it would have been one thing if he asked me, what color do you think work best with charcoal and just leave it at that. But he said he's been having a hard time pairing his tie colors with charcoal. To me, that's complicating things when it's not that complicated. Just wear any tie with your charcoal suit. You know, like a charcoal suit is kind of a blank canvas, man. You can wear any tie color with it.

21:58
You want a plain shirt like a white or really light pink or really light blue. You can wear any tie, man. I mean, I like to tell people I'm not really into the whole monochromatic. So I probably wouldn't wear a dark gray tie with a dark gray suit, but that's just me. That's not even saying there's anything wrong with that. But I really feel like guys complicate things for no reason. And that's one of the things that can stop you from looking your best.

22:27
So the great thing about menswear is really the journey, right? So a lot of trial and error. So that's how you're going to find certain colors do look better with other colors, but that doesn't mean you can't wear other colors. You know what I'm saying? So you guys seen some of my videos, I wear charcoal a lot and I never really favor one color as far as my ties. I wear every single tie color with my, with my charcoal suit that I own.

22:52
So that's one thing I wanted to leave with you guys today is try not to overcomplicate things, man. Life is hard. Dressing was shouldn't have to be have fun with your clothes, trial and error. And if you, if it's a nice tie, it's a nice tie, bro. You know what I mean? Just wear your ties, wear your suits, try certain things, but don't worry about which color works the best. Just wear your nice ties, you know, just make sure your shirts are blank canvas and then you can pull off any tie.

23:22
I hope that makes sense. And as I was saying, I'm in the process of starting my own membership. As some of you know, I'm part of a membership already called the menswear mastermind with my guys Stylejumper and Stylearchitect. And I'm still going to be a part of the menswear mastermind, something that we started in December. But even prior to starting the menswear mastermind, my goal was to always start my own membership. It's for a couple of reasons. Number one,

23:50
I learned everything that I know from being part of a community. And that community is Styleform. And I talk about Styleform all the time. Styleform is an open form where you can go and ask questions and read threads and learn about menswear. Classic menswear if you will. I started going to Styleform around 2010. I started doing my own research. Every time I would look something up, it would link to Styleform.

24:19
You know, like there was a question or thread about it. And that's when I started to learn about classic menswear. But even then I was still confused. Like how come these guys clothes are so big compared to my clothes? And that's because I used to always wear all my clothes too tight back then. I was really into fashion. So around 2013, when I finally said to myself, I'm the problem, it's not really them. I'm definitely wearing my clothes too tight. This is not the right way. I should learn.

24:47
more about classic menswear. It still took me two years to finally put a good outfit together. So from the time that I built as I was doing it wrong, it took me two years to finally get it right. And that was for a couple of reasons. The first one was because I had to undo so many bad habits. I know I talk about that all the time. But the second reason is because there are so many threads that you have to go through just to find the right information. So putting everything together is not really that easy.

25:17
And also there's really nobody holding you accountable on style form because you know, everybody's there to post their stuff. There are some guys there who are really, really helpful. And so I'm not saying that there aren't guys like that on there, but they're not really there to hold your hand. No, it's kind of up to you to piece information together. Of course you can ask questions and hopefully you get your questions answered, but nobody's obligated to do that.

25:42
But it was still a great resource because once again, this is the place that I learned about 90% of the stuff that I know now. So I've always felt like a community was a great place to learn, although I didn't feel like a good community really existed or I didn't know of any of them. So I've had that idea for a while, although I never really followed up on it, but it was always in the back of my mind because I know it could work. It worked for me, you know what I'm saying? Even though, like I was saying, it took two years.

26:10
And the second reason why I wanted to do my own membership is because when I did my group coaching, which went on for about two and a half weeks, the feedback from the guys who were on the group coaching was they were so sad that it was ending and they wanted us to continue doing it in some sort of fashion. So when I asked my students what would be the best way for us to move forward, like some of them did choose to work with me one on one.

26:34
but the majority of them wanted to continue the group thing. Because one thing that's great about a group is a lot of time you might be thinking you're the only one that has an issue. But on the other hand, a lot of people are probably experiencing the same thing that you're experiencing. Another thing that's great about learning in a group, sometimes you might have a question.

26:56
but you don't really know how to pose it. Or sometimes you might not even think that you have a question about that. And if somebody else asks the question, you're like, wow, I was thinking about the same thing. I just didn't really know how to say it. So it's really a great way for people to learn. And that's the reason why I'm starting my own community. And once again, it's called the Classic Men's Wear Hub. So what exactly is the Classic Men's Wear Hub, you ask? The hub is going to be a place where men get together to learn about classic menswear and dress for success.

27:26
So if you ever had any pressing questions, if you ever heard any of my podcasts or watch my videos, and you want to know how that information pertains to you, that's what we're going to be talking about inside of the hub. It's going to be all about implementing because not everything that I talk about is for everyone. So you really want to know how is it going to help your situation? And that's what the hub is all about.

27:55
There's going to be some one-on-ones. There's going to be some group coaching. There's going to be brand discounts. There's going to be an affiliate program where you can get paid for bringing in other members. It's going to be a really good time in there, man. And once again, right now we are in the early stages of building this thing. And coming in as a founding member, you'll be able to help us shape it. So the goal is to open the doors to the community in April.

28:22
So if you come in as a founding member, you would get half off the membership and that's for the life of the membership. Meaning when that time comes that you have to renew your membership, you'll always have the same price. So if you are interested, I'm going to put the checkout page in the show notes. I don't have a sales page for it yet because everything is still pretty new. And once again, I'm in the early stages of building this membership, but I've never been more excited about anything that I've ever done.

28:50
because I feel like this is really, really going to be the one. It's going to be a community where guys come to learn how to dress for success. So check the show notes and the checkout page for The Classic Menswear Hub will be right there. And the spots are limited right now because I'm only looking to get about 20 guys to come in as founding members because once again the membership is empty right now.

29:14
and I don't want too many guys in there yet. It's not going to open until April, 2024. So far I have nine spots taken. No, I have 10 spots taken so far. I'm recording this Sunday, February 11th. So as of right now, I have 10 spots taken and I have a feeling that they're going to fill up pretty fast because I did mention it on Instagram and a lot of guys have been hitting me up to ask me about it. So if you're interested, click on the checkout page.

29:42
in the show notes and as soon as we get to 20 I will remove the link so if you're interested you gotta act fast so that doesn't mean that you'll never be able to join the community you will be able to once we open in April but it won't be at half price anymore it'll be full price by that time but shoot me an email if you have any questions once again is vr@chaceandryder.com, vr@chaceandryder.com that's also on the show notes

30:16
So this is the part of the podcast where I tell you a story. Sometimes it has something to do with menswear, other times it doesn't. And this is one of those cases where it has nothing to do with menswear. Anyway, I don't think I told you guys this, but I used to work for EZPass. And I started working for E-ZPass in 2001. And I left E-ZPass in...

30:44
2006 maybe? Yeah, 2005, 2006 I left Eazy Pass. So I was there for about five years. Another thing that some of you guys don't know about me but some of you do know because I've spoken about it in the past is I used to do rap music. So I had a mixtape coming out around 2004 called Coming to America. It was the last mixtape that I did and I was extremely passionate.

31:12
about this mixtape man, because I was like, yo, this mixtape don't work, then that's it for me. I'm not gonna keep rapping, you know, I'm approaching 30 years old and everything, right? So I used to be part of a group, but this was my first time doing a solo project. So I was very excited about this mixtape.

31:33
So, you know, people would ask me about it at work. You have to mix tape going, man, you know what I mean? I would tell them like, yeah, you know, I was in the studio last night or whatever, right? Recording this mix tape. Took about six or seven months to record this mix tape. And one of my coworkers that was very, very interested in the mix tape, I'm not gonna say her name. Well, let's call her Tiffany. So Tiffany was very interested in the mix tape. So every time I would come to work,

32:01
Tiffany would ask me, yo, Vlad, what's going on with the mixtape, man? When's the mixtape coming out? You know? Oh, by the way, I used to work with a girl named Tiffany. That's her real name. And Tiffany, if you're listening to this, I doubt that you are. But if you're listening to this, I'm not talking about you. I'm just using the name Tiffany as. To protect the guilty. But yeah, Tiffany would ask me every time, when's the mixtape coming out, you know? And.

32:30
When it was time for the mixtape to finally come out, I was like, Tiffany, the mixtape is dropping next week. She was like, oh man, I'm so excited, you know? So I come to work all excited, the mixtape is done. I have a few copies with me. So the first person I go to is Tiffany. I'm like, Tiffany, this is the mixtape that you've been asking about coming to America is finally here, and I'm selling it for $10. She goes, oh, no thank you. I wasn't really going to buy it. I was just interested to hear how it was coming along.

33:01
Yo man this is a lavius video. When I tell you everyday Tiffany was asking me about the mixtape when it's coming out and then when that thing finally came out I thought it was $10. If there was one person that I thought was going to buy the mixtape it was Tiffany. Man listen man. Tiffany politely told me to beat it.

33:27
And that's what me a lesser, man. You can't really depend on anybody. You know what I mean? It doesn't matter how much interest they show in something that you're doing. Until they actually give you money, you can't count on them, man. And also just because they're showing interest, they don't owe you anything. I mean, I would have rather heard not showing interest like that every day asking me when it's coming out. Cause I didn't put a gun through her head, be like, yo, ask me about the mixtape. You know what I mean? But, um.

33:57
Nobody's obligated to get anything that you're doing. But I just thought that he was hilarious, shout out to Tiffany, the real one and the fake one. So that was number 35 of the podcast where we talked about classic menswear. Come back again next week for another five episode of I'm Not A Gentleman. Peace.

34:26
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